[captioning made possible by fox news channel] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- neil: fishy or fishing. oh, what a tangled web. today, defending the program on its own website that asks americans to essentially snoop on the other americans and report any "fishy" information. major garrett says nothing fishy is going on at all. >> we are not collecting names of former those emails. >> why ask for them then -- we are not collecting names from those emails. it is obviously very capable of detecting all sorts of conversations about all sorts of

issues and responding. >> stop said on fox news all of the time. -- stuffed said. >> i do not understand what the particular goal is -- stuff said. neil: all right, now to the guy asking those tough questions, call the security -- who the security beat to a pulp moments later. that got a little testy. >> no bruises, neil. neil: bad p.r.? >> the white house is in a very takoma situation, and it put itself there. first of all -- the white house is in a very touchy situation. they said they will not collect the email address is, so my natural follow-up is, why did you collect them in the first place? and if you did, what about the

national archives roles that says any information sent to the white house at least for archive purposes alone, to be consistent with the law be kept? i also said, ", are you going to collect this information and possibly give it to the democratic national committee or another organization?" now, the white house said these emails will never leave the white house and will never ever go to the democratic national committee. i thought they were going to solicit emails and collect those from those supportive of health care as part of this: " disinformation. apparently, that is not their goal either -- as part of this " 1 " disinformation. -- part of this quote, unquote "disinformation." neil: asking them to finish this

information out. they are snitches. what do you make of that? >> well, i have covered washington, neil, since 1990, and, obviously, technology has changed, which means gathering information and distributing informational has become much more electronically based, but i've never seen a white house solicit information from americans about what they think is disinformation or wrong information proffered by other americans. i mean, i just cannot ever seen that. there is the level of on ease the white house has about where it is on the fact arguments -- the level of unease. in the polling data, and it is not just cherry picking, it shows increasing anxiety in the public mind about the implications of health-care reform. that is what happens in the debate. the white house once to counteract what it calls

"disinformation." -- the white house wants to do that. so to ask other americans to sort of bring them things that they think are disinformation that they hope the white house will agree is disinformation-is something i have just never seen before. -- the white house would agree is disinformation is something i just never seen before. that is why i asked my question. it might be alarming in and of itself. neil: the-you're white house pass still work? >> yes, indeed -- does your white house pass still work? neil: i am looking out for you. all right, next guest says one is for sure. the more they snooped, the more the protests will golan -- my next guest says one thing is for sure. the more they snoop, the more

the protests will go on. >> something is wrong with it, and one of the things that the graphic you put up did not say is another piece of the quote that was from the white house blog that kind of embodied the specific types of information they would like you to report on. one was emails, one was websites, and also, and i took great delight for noting this for people who did not notice it, is casual conversation. what is it that they need to know what my casual conversation is? they have no right to be asking my neighbors or anyone around me. if they want to know my opinion, they can come and ask me. that is fine. they have no right to ask people around me to begin to assume suspicious activity with me based on the purely different interpretation versus president obama says health care will be

and what i think it will be. neil: freedom of speech and all of that, but i just kept thinking, if this had happened in the last administration, if they had put at an edict like, we want you to track anybody who might have anything to do with the iraq war or the build up, while richard nixon and the whole debate of the pentagon papers prior -- or richard nixon, we might be talking about how we got into vietnam. quite a different reaction, i would think, in the way it would be covered. >> well, neil, if you look at this, i think the really big lawsuit -- wazoo is that you have simultaneous plummeting of the barack obama approval ratings, and you have got simultaneous distrust being sewn back into the electorate, when you hear geithner and sommers, as you very articulately pointed out on this program -- when you.

geithner or larry summers -- when you hear geithner or larry summers. if he loses its credibility, trying to build this kind of utopia, everything else is shot. coupled with what we have been able to educate ourselves on regarding the health care debate in the last couple of months, it is combining to combine into a double whammy against the administration. neil: at this time, they are also controlling our studio lights, which also concerns me. just kidding. i am trying to understand this. this administration is very tech savvy, very internet savvy. the v.p. choice, the email database, the upswelling of support, unlike anything we have seen before, so they want to know on the internet what folks

are saying and cataloging on the internet what folks are saying so they can plug out emails to counter what they are saying, and this is the way a very tech savvy administration fights its wars, not with any evil intentions, just efficient intentions. he said that is not what is going on, right? >> i am saying there is a trust gap that is growing, and as you just articulately put it for us, we are seeing promises being broken in other regards, and when it comes to my personal privacy, the privacy of my own conversation and, neil, as i might add, this is not about a suspicious suitcase being left in the middle of grand central station or some vehicle parked somewhere that looks suspicious. this is something that has something to do with the core fundamental principles of health care, and we are having our debate about that. if we are not able to have that in the privacy of our own homes

and in casual conversation, this is no longer america. neil: thank you. we would read what kevin has put out, because he has framed this debate way beyond a liberal or conservative conversation. left, white, red, blue. this is just plain illegal. our senior analyst judge andrew napolitano joins us. it is illegal? >> yes. when richard nixon was worried about anti-war protesters during the vietnam era, he said fbi agents and undercover cia agents under cover, which is against the law to be operating in the u.s., in military and civilian garb to take photographs and to take deeper quarters to record the voice of protesters, and they sued. it is a very famous case. the right to free speech is natural to us.

it does not come to was from the government but from our humanity. no government may interfere with it when you are expressing political speech about what the government is doing. neil: even if that is on a political -- in other words, what you are saying is if it pops up on a white house, government side, even though there are vested interests on that site -- government site -- >> the first amendment only restrains the government, any government, the president -- neil: then you are doing a no- no. >> and then you are violating the constitution. think about free speech. sometimes it in leighton's and eliminates, and sometimes it offense -- sometimes it in leighton's -- enlightens, and eliminates -- and illuminates,

and sometimes it offends. this would be the exact type of intimidation the supreme court condemned. neil: let's say that napolitani has been saying some off-the- wall stuff about your health care program. you might want to check it out. am i in the wrong doing that? are they wrong taking the up and that? >> they are in the wrong doing it as the government. remember, the first amendment restrains the government. the statute restrains the government. if anything the government does to intimidate you or to deter you or to make you think twice about expressing a political opinion is prohibited under the first amendment, and the president, who used to teach constitutional law at the university of chicago, must have known this. neil: he did not know about it?

>> he certainly knew what the law is. he may not have known the constitutionality. in a fight between major garrett and the secret service, my bet is on major garrett. i arm wrestled him in a bar once, and he flipped me over the table. neil: , all right, thank you very much. you are not going to get in a battle. this is not really just conservative rage, by the way. now, some liberals who really love the president are coming out against this particular snitch side, as they are calling it. i want you to be one obama fanta that parts with him on this. and judge sotomayor, she is in, but anyone who actually voted against her -- there are 31 of them -- they are out?

neil: all right, well, she is confirmed. now, those who did not want her to be squirme? some members of the latino community, for example, have been hinting for a while that raised is behind the decision and that there to pay for decide against europe. a woman with the center for equal opportunity joins us. linda, what do you make of this

-- >> this is going to be forgotten by the time the next election comes around, and i think people know that confirmation vote rarely play into going into the polling booth and actually casting votes during an election. neil: i agree with everything you just said. we are already, as you said, in a bad way with hispanics, worse than we were, some are saying you did it again. what do you make of it? >> there are real substantive reasons for republicans to vote against her. she and a number of decisions where i think she decided wrongly. -- she had a number of decisions where i think she decided wrongly. most importantly, she was an

entirely different person in those confirmation hearings then in her writings and in her behavior on the bench, -- and in her writings and in her behavior. -- than in them. i do not think hispanics are going to take that into the polling booths with them in november. neil: we live in a day and age when you vote against an african-american, it does not mean you are a racist. if you are for tax cuts, it does not mean that you are a greedy you know what. i just think there tend to be tendencies to make black-and- white statements here, and the view and the way this is going to be handled in future elections, as anyone challenging any one of the 31 incumbents is going to say, "ah ha. remember this prominent woman? on the eve of becoming the next supreme court judge? these are the guys who wanted to

stop per." >> of course, the advertisements are going to be out there -- the guys who wanted to stop her." these are not the kinds of people to be swayed by that. neil: these are some of the comments you have got to and from the likes of a senator in new jersey. can we show that, guys? -- these are some of the comments you have gotten from the likes of a senator in new jersey. by "us," i think he was talking to the latino community. what do you make of that? >> i think anybody who is going to cast a vote for or against a nominee based on the color of their skin, that is the wrong way to be making a decision. he and the latino activists can scream all they want.

the people they are appealing to and that they are going to try to rev up are not likely republican voters in the first place. i do not think this is going to make a difference. you have people like orrin hatch, who has an excellent relationship with the latino community, he cast a vote against this woman. he has one of the best outreach policies of anyone in the senate. neil: when senator barack obama voted against samuel alito for the court, i do not know if there was an outcry, "it is going to hurt him with a italian-americans." i would hope we are beyond some silliness -- hurt him with italian-americans." >> we ought to be beyond that, too. race and gender do not block people's elevation to hire op- ed's any longer in america. it just does not happen -- elevation to higher elevations

any longer in america. i do not remember all whole lot of articles talking that, because i happen to be a conservative republican. it only comes up when it is liberals we are talking about. neil: did you know that i was the first italian american banker hired at fox news? that is a whole other show -- the first italian american anchor? thank you. steve moore sees something no one else does.

..xn0]

neil: it does seem weird that on the day we have the supreme

court judge names, we are dealing with cars. cash for clunkers. if you trade in your clunker, will there be a new car waiting for you? jeff flock has a chrysler dealership in illinois. hey, jeff? >> the government approved a $2 billion more for the cash for clunkers program -- approved $2 billion more. and then, you do not have any cars to sell. >> we are getting some in next week. >> chrysler/jeep/.. -- chrysler, jeep's, dodge. -- jeep's -- jeep.

they got the clunkers in here, but toyota did not shed any plants down. neither did nissan. -- they did not shut any plants down. the cheapest here is the patriarch. -- petrie not. how many do you have? >> 9 -- patriot. how many do you have? >> 9. -- none. >> the japanese are going to win all of the clunker deals. neil: all right, thanks, buddy. >> talking about raising taxes. what is true is that we have a long-term budget problem, and the president is committed to dealing with that, and right now, the way we are focusing on that is with health-care reform. neil: no talk of tax hikes, but

we do have a budget problem. steve morris says that is why a tax hike is coming to your house and soon -- steve moore says that. he is with "the wall street journal." what do you make of this? you say it is inevitable. we had art laffer a year yesterday saying the same thing. -- we have art laffer here yesterday. >> thank you. there is no more glass ceiling. there is no question when you are running deficits of $2 trillion this year, $12 trivia deficits over the next 10 years, somebody has got to pay the piper. there is no free lunch here -- $12 trillion deficits over the next 10 years. milton friedman taught us that. some of my liberal friends would say, "sure. raise taxes on the rest of us like obama was talking about, on

people and make more than $250,000." %qñif you took every penny frome people who make over $250,000, you could run the government for about six months. if you took everything from warren buffett and the others. the point is, the vast majority of the money in this country is still in the hands of the great middle-class, so if you want to raise a lot of money to fund the cash for clunkers programs and the health-care reform bill, unfortunate, it will have to come from us, because we are in the middle class. neil: tax cuts. we know they carry a lot of revenues. we also know that once congress has those revenues, they spend it and then some. it has been argued that the spending is already paying off, and we are seeing increases in

economic activity and more revenues coming in. your seem more optimistic forecasts on the part of companies reporting earnings. that is going to mitigate your talk of a tax hike on the middle-class. >> you know i am a supply-side guy. the best way to balance the budget is to have the economy and explode. we should have 5% or 6% growth next year -- is to have the economy explode. personal tax receipts are down. i do not see the revenue growth. neil: we talked about this with art laffer. what is your perfect supply- side world is wrong and the sticks? they will come back and say, "we got criticized." -- world is wrong, and it

sticks? you're arguing that even if it works, it will be short-lived. >> my prediction is we are going to have some growth starting in the fall, maybe 2% or 3% growth. my worry is what happens when the stimulus is done. you cannot stimulate the economy forever. you cannot run $2 trillion deficits forever. in 2001 and in 2008, remember, we had the bush tax rebates. you saw a little bump up, when people got their checks, and they ran out and spend it, and when it was done, it went back. -- they ran out and spent it. neil: steve, a great seeing you, my friend. now, credit cards charging you if you do not spend -- steve, a

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and lifelock's one million dollar total service guarantee... for less than $10 a month. simply call now and mention free month. call now or go to lifelock.com. ♪ >> you be the judge of. swastikas and things like that. this is astroturf by the wealthiest -- you beebe judge of carrying swastikas and things like that. -- you be the judge. neil: my next guest is put off. we thought we would get a different angle on this and talk to someone who is in the

astroturf field. he is the chairman of astra foo. you try calling him a phony. i will leave it there. what do you make of all of this astroturf stuff? >> well, neil, we are a little upset about the misuse of our brands. we are very proud of our brand, and the astroturf brand was relaunched in 2006 with our spokesperson being archie manning, and we have had a very successful run over the last few years, and it seems that politicians are misusing our brands, astroturf. -- our brand. neil: whether it holds up better than the real stuff, but it is not the real stuff, and that is what they go to, that it is not

real. they are seeiaying that this forum -- these forums and rallies are all fake. what do you say? >> i think they would do better to solve the economic problems of our country. people need jobs. people the opportunity to put food on the table for their families, and we need to be less divisive and come together and try to fix some of these problems that we have in our country right now. neil: you know, michael, when i see nancy pelosi, do the forty- niners and the giants, into their stadiums have astroturf? -- do their stadiums have astroturf? >> no, not currently.

the buffalo bills use our astroturf, and we just closed one. the new york giants use a product of a competitor's, and the 49 years use something else -- the 49ers use something else. neil: you judge the quality of your played by real grass, real mud, real dirt, and that is the real stuff. it is kind of like what these guys are doing. it is not the real thing. how do you answer that this >> well, synthetic turf -- how do you answer that? >> well, synthetic turf, at the high-end, in division 1 a and professional football, -- in division 1, and in professional

football, it is very important to allow athletes to get more play and be safe. that is the drive behind synthetic surfaces. neil: when you ever want to wrap these politicians in astroturf? >> no, that is not my job. my job is to develop state-of- the-art products and, you know, be in a scenario where we are providing great service for the industry. neil: you are classier than they are, michael. we will have more after this. 90s slacker hip-hop. ♪ singer: buckle up, everybody 'cause we're taking a ride ♪

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neil: well, do not use that credit card at all, and still, still, get charged by your credit-card company. dave ramsey joins us now. he is a star of a radio show and also a part of the prime-time

lineup on the fox business network. practicing everything you talk about on your show, and you still get stuck. what is the deal? >> no, you did not practice everything on the show, because we talked about and getting rid of them, because if they are gone, i do not get any fees at all. the opportunity to write me off on my credit card is zero, because i do not have any -- their opportunity to rip me off on my credit card is zero. this is pretty gutsy charging for no use. some of these are going to write clients off for life. i am talking about people are really angry about the way they are being treated by collection departments and the way they are being treated when they do not owe the bank anything. it is absurd. they have completely lost touch with their client base. it is amazing. neil: i know you are against

credit cards and all of that, but a lot of people keep them, dave, just in case, just in case, so a lot of people have seen their credit cards cut down even when they have no problems and being charged for no balances. the furnace goes, and, yes, they have some savings, maybe not a thing like you advocate, but they need it. what do you say? >> well, to get yourself in the position where you do not have to lean on a financial crunch. financial advisers like myself have said for decades that a proper financial plan includes three to six months of your money saved as an emergency fund, and and you lean on money in an emergency rather than on a plastic crutch. the bank is coming along to find every possible way to keep you in the knee. at what point do we say, "enough already"? -- to find every

possible way to kick you. neil: they are going to hear this talk about banks increasing their feel for people just keep a balance. are not a lot of them going to say, "well, gee, i might as well use the darn thing"? >> they are not really that lame or shallow where they go, "i will run and go get a balance in they are going to charge me." instead, they will say, "i am going to take some scissors to these." several years ago, the check was eclipse, and the days of writing a check in the store are almost gone -- the check was eclipsed.

and now, the debit card has replaced the credit card. it is going to cost them. neil: it is like their name. let me ask you, finally, about what is happening here. i always argue, and i kid about it, that the perfect storm for a guy like you was this financial crisis, because it was the result of stuff you have said we have ignored, and you arrive in your message rolling in this environment. -- and you have grown, with your message growing in this environment. do you worry that once they look around and see things are picking up, they return to their old ways, and they forget all of this, and not that they forget you. who could forget you? but, you know what i am saying, they forget all of those wise

lessons? >> some people will, and some people will not. whether they are following what i am saying or common sense, after the great depression, did some people go back to overspending where they were overspending before? sure. but did some people learn their lesson? sure. for some people, this is their first bump in the road, where they draw a line and say, "that is it. i am going to be responsible going forward." some of them go backward. we are talking about behavior change. neil: dave, thank you, my friend. always did you have you on. >> thank you, neil. you are looking good. neil: did you hear about this? in the middle of the heat wave, a major energy company asking them to set their thermostats, their air conditioners, to 78

degrees. better yet, it is getting too hot, just stripped-down. just seeing if you are paying attention -- just written down -- just strip down. a lot of this is wise, and stuff. the thermostat at 78 though, that is pretty warm, is it not? -- a lot of this wise comment stuff. >> you can keep the air conditioner above 78 on a hot day, you are doing well. it is expensive for them when they start running low on power. they do not want to run out of capacity. if they do, they have to turn on these very big, expensive, diesel generators, which are very expensive, but it is good for consumers. neil: it was not too long ago,

was it not, that jimmy carter was president, and i think during the summer, you could not go below 74 in all federal buildings. i could be wrong on all of that and probably an, but now, it is 78. i see where this is going. it is a bunch of thin, aggressive skinny people trying to make the fat people pay. when i saw this 78, i said, " then why have an air conditioner?" >> well, i was getting ready for this show, and i said, "all right, neil is all locked up over this 78 number," and i said, "i went to see where we keep this." neil: you guys do not even have air-conditioning. you just run past each other. >> know, during the day, we keep it at 78. -- no. if you start moving around, it

will feel a little warm, but in the evenings, we do turn at 277, because otherwise, it feels too hot at night to sleep -- wheat u-turn it to 77. neil: -- we do turn it to 77. neil: around 60 to 68 degrees. you are having it at 78. these people are not sleeping. they are angry. they are waking up. they are hot. there are bothered. they are ticked beyond all, and may be sitting a few bucks on their air-conditioning bill, and they are probably -- and may be saving a few bucks on their air- conditioning bill, and they are probably going to get a divorce. >> when a utility gives a recommendation, do what works for you and your family. neil: all right, john, use your of an early in the morning or

late at night. now, the ama says to try to eat your meals early, because if you eat too late at night, and you go right to beddy-bye, which is going to be hard to do because of your house is so hot, but late at night, when, presumably, it is cooler, but you will not know it, because it is 78 degrees, so you eat at night, and you stagger off into your bedroom, and everyone is angry, and the energy company is happy, but you are a health mess. what do you think of that? >> i think you make a good point. but think about this. think about cooking on a really hot evening. you do not want to cook something where you have the oven on. neil: use the grill. use the green. >> not only do i use the grill, but i figure out how to make a pizza on the growth -- use the grill.

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neil: all right. i want to report on some sad news. we are getting reports that the director john hughes has died apparently of a heart attack earlier today after jogging in new york. he was 59. so many classic movies behind him, the breakfast club, pretty in pink, 16 candles, one of my favorite movies of all times, ferris beuhler's day off. beuhler, beuhler. john is the guy behind that. dead at 59. that's just not right. all right.

and my next guest is one of the opponents on healthcare plan, attorney general assistant pa trish is patricia holder. explain were you don't like this? >> i think the risks in gathering this information far outweighs the purpose of this idea that this information or whatever it is called, you know, the president is saying that -- or the blog is saying they want fishy information, rumors, chain e-mails, personal conversations. that's not the same as fraudulent information that's coming out from the white house, and there's a big difference. they are looking for information that has to do with people's personal conversations or e-mails that they're passing along about their concern over the healthcare plan. those shouldn't go to the president, and remember -- neil: but this is exclusively on

the national democratic committee's site, you have no problem, but when it goes to a government site, then you have a problem, right? >> correct. they said they want to fight the information that's out there. fight the information. neil: just watch t.v. >> well, yeah, read "the new york times," watch neil cavuto. >> could you start with watch neil cavuto? >> that's first! neil: today it seemed odd, like if you were doing this, you should have done this a while ago before the e-mailing campaign started, but you worry about big brother implications, even though they might not be intended, right? >> right, because where does it end? where does it end? does it end with obama-care alone, or now does it go to any other feelings, guantanomo bay, or whatever other issues arise, and then what do they do with the information once they get it? are they going after people who post this information?

are they going to use their names, their domain names, all of that back-end stuff in technology to track people? what are they going to do with this information once they get it? neil: what do you suspect? >> i suspect they will do a lot with it. technology allows the white house and the government to track whatever they want. think about the f.b.i. neil: but as a constitutional lawyer reyet, he must know this is a no-no. >> i say it is a no, no. neil: judge andrew napolitano says it is a no-no. >> right. he shouldn't want this kind of information in his hands or anybody else's hands. he shouldn't want to fight the information that's out there in regular conversation. what he should want to do is have the best thing for defense

is a good offense.